Mmmm that rings a bell! Waffler, I see you are stirring the pot again - well at least it keeps it lively. The Soviet State was not founded on a lie it became a lie. You could say that America was founded on a lie and some would agree but the intent was honorable with regard to their belief. Carlton hit the nail on the head "our freedom is an illusion".

Especially religion, authority, and the trust of politicians

Excellent! Waffler - it was not meant to be emphatic but rethorical.

Excellent!

The blind leading the blind - O dear O dear what is to become of us. I suppose we are to believe the goverment when they tell us that Dr. Bruce Ivens (re Anthrax) committed suicide? Waffler read Glenn Greenwald's book "Great American Hypocrites." Patriotism is to always question authority.

I propose a referendum to oust the present government - when a Presidents rating fall below 30% the people MUST ACT - but we don't - we love our warm comfortable armchairs - I see another person who was just about to provided evidence (Anthrax) rather conveniently committed suicide - when will we WAKE-UP

Right on the mark, and Archer too - when are the American People going to wake up and take back our country? The government uses more resources than us all put together - the DOD alone is our biggest consumer burning nearly 400,000 barrels a day. Steve Iseal (who formed a defense Energy Working Group) said. "We are borrowing money money from China to fund our defense budgets to buy oil from the Persian Gulf to fund our military to protect us from China and the Persian Gulf. It is an insidious vulnerability" When will we admit we have goons running our lives. The government just voted not to stop the oil speculators - I wonder why...

What a Thesaurus

Very good, but I would have added "and Government" This subject is very broad and I'm afraid needs more than this blog to debate. I do though appreciate the comments above as they are reflective of how view our police force. Robert Peel who started the London Bobbies was criticized as being good and evil (perhaps evil is to strong a word) - this may be why to this day we have problems. The Mises Institute also reflects many of the Libertarian views expressed on this blog www.mises.org

Waffler and I can read and by itself it's still stupid statement regardless of what the Roman poet meant

Indeed! along with a simple caveat, that minorities need also to be represented within that authority and that can be impossible if majority rule exists - there has to be laws that protect them also - no authority should be take without question regardless of its origin.

Archer, I'm glad you couldn't resist - life is full of different facets belonging to the same stone. "Be fearless and pure; never waver in your determination or your dedication to the spiritual life. Give freely. Be self-controlled, sincere, truthful, loving, and full of the desire to serve... Learn to be detached and to take joy in renunciation. Do not get angry or harm any living creature, but be compassionate and gentle; show good will to all. Cultivate vigor, patience, will, purity; avoid malice and pride. Then, you will achieve your destiny." -- Krishna from Bhagavad-Gita. In the end Krishna is killed by an arrow meant for a Deer. Have you read the Upanishads? Here's a sampling: "He who understands, understand not, he who understands he understands not, understands."

Archer, your points are well taken and I understand your choices and appreciate your words -- my position is simple, first, what is power? I don't see power as a negative force and true power can never be taken from you. You may have things, benefits, rights, even your loved ones taken away from you; but, never can they take your Self from you (though evil and despots desperately trie to do so). It is this inner power we all share that once ignited as a people is far superior to any weapon. A good example of this is Krishna's revelation to Arjuna in the Bhagavada Geeta and in this Krishna tells Arjuna to defend his people as Arjuna did not want to harm his bothers (it's a fascinating story). Others can never dictate the power you have and perpetual servitude only occurs when you capitulate your Self. To cut to the quick I'm really just trying to get the point across that this continual superficial attitude towards violence must be addressed and not the violence itself. Have a great weekend, Robert

Archer, "even Gandhi chastised the British for disarming the Indian populace" this has been used many times by gun lobbyists and was taken out of context. Gandhi totally believed in non-violence; he single handedly won back India from the British Empire with the best weapon of all time NON-VIOLENT activism. And, as B. R. Nandra wrote “He objected to violence not only because an unarmed people had little chance of success in an armed rebellion, but because he considered violence a clumsy weapon which created more problems than it solved, and left a trail of hatred and bitterness in which genuine reconciliation was almost impossible.” This is a quote often sited “ I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil; it does is permanent”. Archer, I agree, if you are being attacked I will come to your aid that is not the question. The question of violence is not taken up on such simple debate as your comments imply but on the deep rooted cause of why a person or nation feel it is necessary to hurt another being or nation. It is this approach to violence that should be addressed. Waiting for the attack and then attacking back is not the answer – if you were to show kindness and understanding to you enemy wars may be averted; if you provide wealth, whether it be material or spiritual, guns may not stand a chance. Let’s get down to the core of the problem instead of just addressing its outcome. During Gandhi’s war on violence factory workers in India were beaten to a pulp – they didn’t even lift a finger to protect themselves; when this was shown to the world the message of non-violence became a reality. Usually, we are told to be violent, either by religious factors, dictators, despots or governments; so, if those being told didn’t obey a new order would appear. I’m not saying that I wouldn’t stop another person being harmed but what I am saying is let’s help those with anger, with hatred, with vengeance, or any other reason – let’s start by being proactive against violence instead of it being reactive; let’s conquer evil that fires violence. Sorry, I rambled on a bit there…

Stupid remark. Lets have sensible debate

Sad, sad, sad. We don't need guns your words are violent enough.

The main message the Dalai Lama presented in his lecture 7-17-2008 in Philadelphia was the idea of aiming for world peace through inner and outer disarmament. He explained that to reach a point where nations would outwardly disarm, people must first inwardly disarm, by becoming compassionate, not just with friends, but with all people, including those perceived as enemies. We have tried guns and it seems to make matters worse - we have more guns and hatred in the world than ever before. Yes, Waffler, and it was Liberals that started America - and for you all out there once and for all: The left began in the French Revolution the people (middle class) sat on the left and nobility sat on the right. The term Left then stuck. By the way they still have the same arrangement in the French Assembly

So we mustn't tinker with the 2nd amendment but it's OK to tinker with the 4th...

Eric, by all means defend while there's integrity, but when the integrity fails what then will you defend? Do we the people sit round a table and decide a new integrity to defend? I do not need a "We" to defend my integrity - what is absolute is absolute and no constitution will ever change that.

p.s. read an essay on the jurisprudence of Justice Scalia in the fall issue of SHB (Secular Humanist Bulletin).

I'm sorry, but I find it difficult to believe this man - nothing is enshrined... get it! We do not have and never have had individual Rights -- we only have individual rights as long as politicians, government, and the Supreme Court say we do -- Or, the people say we do; but, aren't the politicians representing the people? Isn't the Supreme Court just a reflection of the Government and its people? How long does any ruling, law, or constitution remain sacred? Is it never to change for all eternity? The only sacred Right I believe in is for the individual to be left alone, to be allowed to mature and flourish creatively in a spirit of nature. I will die defending that right, and your right to have that right.

Oops sorry for the spelling - I'm in a hurry

Well Archer I have to tell you that my friends in Switland do not come up to you expectations. I too have visted Switzland many times and only a few (very few) like Joe stated have locked boxes with guns. Thanks Reston and Joe for some sanity. By the way, having guns in South Central LA didn't stop the roits and I know I was there. Though to be trueful there were a few shop owners with ozi's lying wait on rooftops.

So the constitution is always in context - tell that to the White House – plus, those quotes are not the constitution – please tell me where tom, dick, or harry is allowed, in the constitution, to carry a gun - Militia’s, now that’s different. If Militia’s existed they would soon be terminated by the FBI and CIA. Rome imploded because of greed and megalomania. Archer, rest assured, it would take more that a gun or two for individual defense - as Reston said - the brain is far more of a weapon. A people enslaved are those who think they are armed.

The distinction between a freeman and a slave is arms - give me a break - tell that to MLK. How absurd can you be. Power is not in bare hands or down the end of a barrel. Archer, I couldn't agree with you more, your reasoning is sound and I believe echoed by most on this blog - we just have a difference of opinion on how to deal with it - and that is true weaponry.