Mike what are you talking about "getting freedom to go to the grocery store". Mike seeks a dictatorship of Natural Law (compelled compliance) and he is more than glad to tell us what his Natural Law is. He is a would be Surpreme Leader of Natual Law. Cal the 51% and 49% change members constanly, you or I are not stuck in one position or the other and reasonable men agree sometimes and disagree sometimes. Disagreeing on occaison does not mean that we have to be disagreeable persons our entire lifetime. Wisdom has shown that it is better to adhere to the rule of the 51% over time even if on occasion the 51% are wrong. It is their priviledge to be wrong, that is why democracy is not perfect just better than anything else. Now Mike has the perfect system Natural Law and he is more than gald to tell us what it is and force it upon us, as the triumph of one force with him as the Supreme Ayotollah! Now it seems illogical to accept this idea of equilibrium rather than to clutch for the golden ring of perfection as Mike and some try to do but I submit that history and wisdom have shown this quote to be the better way.

Read carefully, read with discernment especillay those who think guns are to take on the cops, government or state. This quote from the earliest of framers and founders says explicitly that guns are for the protection and defense of the State. They are not for attacking the state. Now if one finds via their own research that the State is no longer a free state, (vote rigging, dictatorship etc) it would appear that attacking it may be morally okay but others who may not be of that view could certainly defend the State, thus Civil War would ensue. Again read with discernment guns are not for attacking a Free State but for defending it. (PS: Just because the state may not seem to you to be free because it passes laws (that is compellled compliance) of which you may run afoul does not mean that it is not a free state.)

My impression is that the natural law guys and Republic not a democracy type guys are against agitation. After all the natural law is absolutely knowable and can be set down by either the knwo it all framers or as in Iran by The Guardian Council. In these systems of thought and political science aggitation and democracy can just go to hell.

You are a nut Mike, pure and simple. Welcome to the world of Archer.

It is fascinating that most here do not have the grace to accept the current majority views viz a viz the last election. The only majority they agree with is the fictional one that they think must certainly always and forever agree with thier views. You are in a dream world Mike, Archer, Jim K, and J Carlton. Wake up, wake up and snap out of it.

Warren no one can prove or disprove God. The Bible tells us that and also tells us or declares God. Take it a leave it. The Bible does not try to prove God either. Even Jesus said words to the the effect, "you folk believe in god who you cannot even see, believe in me who you can see". Darwin who was a trained minister and son of a minister became nauseas and sick to the point of throwing up when he was "discovering" his theory. He did not seek to create a theory or revolution but just to put down what he saw. His wife comforted him concerning his torn feelings between evloution and Bible creation but telling him, "Charles dear don't you know that God is about love and feelings". Why is it that women are so smart about these things and us men have to argue all of the time. There are many men of science who enjoy the love and good feelings of religion, and many men of religion who enjoy the facts of science. Lets give each other a break and some space to ruminate, think, love, laugh and be happy.

Lots of words guys lots of words. My only complaint against Mike is his words make no sense. Government and law maybe be in effect one and the same thing. We (The People) govern ourselves by passing laws or other conventions concerning the correct way to behave when interacting with society or in public. Thus traffic laws for starters. Mike complains of "compelled compliance" well all I ask is for Mike to stop from being so f****** hard heeaded and down right stupid and to admit that law that is not compelled upon us is no law at all. And a society without law and compelled compliance is no society at all. Now the overwhelming job of "government" is probably to insure compliance. The more folk that go along with the law the less "government" or oversight that would be required. A utopia of peace and cooperation. All I ask is why does Mike keep talking about COMPELLED COMPLIANCE, what the hell is he ever talking about.

The current health debate is about the 50 million who pay no insurance yet go to the emergency room when they are shot or sick and get services for free. The insurance industry won't take these people. Massacusetts has a mandatory health insurance law just like virtually every state has a mandatory car insurance law or like we often pay for uninsured motorist coverage. The health care debate is primarily about making the uninsured by some insurance even if it has to be "government" insurance. Check it out and get on board, the train is leaving the station. Again we have a wide diverse source of info about health in this country, the government does not control it or tell us what to eat or take.

Mikes big oops are nonsense to me. He never explains what he means. Law without compulsion is nonexistent. If we are going to have law without compulsion then we might just as well disband all governement everywhere existing.

Shallow and misleading. I bet good Tom decided what food his slaves ate and I bet he and his household were concerned and assisted with medicine and advise when his slaves were sick. So what is ones definition of government? Public health and things like quarantine are a necessary part of medical practice. We have a very free and diverse diet available to us, I do not see that it is controlled by any one authoirty or government. Because "experts" from all sides wish to promote their ideas of diet and medicine does not mean that one must listen to them. Some improvements of course could and should be made like lower costs like our Canadian and Mexican brethren are able to achieve.

Not ,many on the site today obyeing this rule. Instead they may be standing up sitffed neck and head strong and supporting their preconceived notions. Many will not accept fact, they only look at "what is the motivation for someone who advaces a fact". Well how about truth, plain simple truth without any motivation.

The people made the change, THE MAJORITY OF THE PEOPLE MADE THE CHANGE. The change has resulted on throwing out some of the ancien regimes rules on evironment etcetera. The point is and I repeat if you support the quote then you must support the right of the majority to make the change. You can still bitch for that may be all that you know to do.

Archer as usual you miss all vaild points. We support soicalists and communist governments when we buy their products. We and maybe you if I may be so bold are hypocrites about this entire socialist argument. If you disdain "socialism" do you then go and buy products made in Communist China, or the government supported car industries of Japan and Korea. Do you buy French and German products where the companies pay much higher taxes to their governments which support a more broad based and "socialized" heatlh care system? I hazard a bet that you support what you claim to hate (that is socialism) all of the time!

Mike in previous posts you have expressed disdain for cops, firemen etcetera. On one occasion you expressed disdain for the military and when questioned you said the soldiers are okan it is the officers who you disdain. Taken all together it would appear that you have a problem with authority or with what you perceive to be authority. Like you also disdain law that says you must STOP or drive on a certaing side of the street. I remember your statements very well my friend very well indeed.

Intolerance is when the majority eliminates the minority. He often argues against the idea of "might (or majority) makes right". Here I am defending or insisting on the need for might or majority to be tolerant and Archer bitches about it. The only point proven is that Archer likes to bitch and most often knows not what he is even saying or writing.

Because of the open, democratic nature of the American experiment in DEMOCRACY this does not nor will not happen here. Our institutions evolve, grow and atrophy on a regular basis as public opinion changes. We do not have a set in stone, iron willed regime, (even though some would like us to have some sort of set in stone REPUBLIC of NATURAL LAW). Since we are FREE and have no established order there is no reason for a secretive revolutionary group or secret know it alls. Our institutions, politics and government will evolve to fulfill our needs as they always have. Have faith my children, have faith!

Sadly when this occurs there is a number of folk, often 49%, who only bitch and complain. So when the latest new administration took over, with a healthy margin of victory, because a majority of the community exercised its rights to abolish the former government, because it was acting contrary to the common benefit and securtiy of the people (the anti-environment, pro-debt, anti-health, pro-rich crowd) people like Mike and J Carlton and Jim of Austin bitch and complain, yet they say right hear that the people did what they were suppose to do. Which is it folk? If you support the quote then you should support the people and their new administration!

Anon sadly you may be correct. It is sad is it not to think that we all have an equal opportunity to be creeps. Thus is their really any hope for the world.

Interesting insight from Mr. Salsman

All of Mikes blashemous illiterate spewing forth changes nothing about what I said. With our DEMOCRACY we change our legislature(s) constanly. Logan ditto. These guys make long winded inane statements but fail to recognize the subtle, even humble straight forward fact that we have the legislatures that we want via constant elections throughtout the states and nation. Their failures to recoginize this goes a long way to understanding their lack of faith and trust in their fellow men, neighbors and citizens and you and I who go to the effort to send people of our choosing to these offices. They don't trust the legislatures because they don't trust us. They probably don't even trust themselves.

We have been fairly attentive for a long time, correcting error and corruption as we go. Will there ever be an end to error and corruption, NO! Must we stay attentive and correct error and corruption YES! The biggest and most insidious lack of attention has been our budget deficits and National Debt, brought on by the Reagan/Bushes snake oil salesmen philosophy. We will correct this error and corruption also. Lets get started.

A perfect discribtion of DEMOCRACY which we have had and improved upon since 1787. We have a new legislature every two years, with the election of the House and Senate.

Those who go on web sites thinking they are going to find comfort and slaps on the back for their right wing or left wing, liberal or conservative views should be forewarned by this quote.

How folk can find the words "great and invigorating" influence to include things like serial killings, desire for destruction, etcetera is beyond me. Warren great and ivigorating are positive things. Get your minds out of the gutter people!

Warren needs to study how the Japanese government promoted, advanced, and marketed its automobile industry through its MITI Agency and Japan, Inc. became the envy of the car industry. The Chineese are now doing the same thing with their fledgiling car industry as have the Koreans. We buy all of our stuff from these countries which are supported by their governments and bitch and complain when something is supported by ours. We have become a sick people. I read a quote today about the health care debate. The guy said if we want to learn how it should be done why don't just call our Canadian, French, German and other friends who apparently do it much better and cheaper than we do, and also ask them how to make cars better with government involvement.