“To change masters is not to be free.”

Or: To change yourself is not to be free

Ain't that the truth. The jury box is the next to last line of defense of our freedoms -- the last is the cartridge box.

Corporeally speaking, absolutely.

"That you vote does not prove you are free, it just shows you are a slave who votes." ----anon One page by that anonymous writer should convince any literate person that we are slaves, Get 1 page or 5 from: hadagin@yahoo.com There are hoards of "money experts" or fictional reserve fanatics who are not concerned about ending our slavery, they just want to change our masters. They insist that Congress should do what the Fed is doing. They are mentioned in James 1:8 If a few men have the intelligence to enslave us with strips of paper, can't they also have the intelligence to have an identical sytem ready for us when this one collapses? BEWARE OF THE "DEBT FREE MONEY" CROWD. The money we have does not represent debt, it represents theft! For a debt to exist, there must be intent to pay. What fool believes the Fed intends to pay? Their pernicious paper IS debt free!

Ineptitud with insufficient cover equal a lie. lz nanin

I don't understand you guys talk about money is debt. Debt is the lack of money is it not? Debt is when you have stuff you have not given money for yet. So if you have money (green under your mattress say) then it represents theft, from whom? If the fed did pay what would they pay you? Gold, eh! or maybe sea shells. If the gold or sea shells could pay for the stuff or your daily bread does that make it any better than the paper with which you can do the same thing? And the paper or electronic figures at the bank is so much easier to use.

Bruce, Indeed real money is not debt, it is real property with intrinsic value that can be traded in the free market. However, the pieces of paper we use as money are in fact NOT money but IOU's. A Federal Reserve Note (i.e. is not a real dollar) is issued when someone 'borrows' it from the bank. It is a promissory note -- an IOU that says that I owe the bank one 'dollar' -- and I will pay interest on that note until it is paid back to the bank where it is literally torn up. Every single so-called dollar in circulation has been borrowed (I use the term 'borrowed' loosely as the bank does not actually 'lend' anything, it merely has the legal right to monetize my promise to pay -- to make my IOU something I can trade with others in the form of Federal Reserve Notes) -- that is how 'money' is created. What a mind blow, eh? Where did all the real money go? Into the coffers of the private Federal Reserve Bank in 1934. Even if we did return to a gold standard, we would have to go to the private central banks to get it -- they have it all (except for a few coin & bullion collections here and there). The crime is that they have acquired that gold through absolute theft and counterfeiting. There has been no greater crime against humanity, and as a result, we have lost control of our democratic-republic -- the banks are the top of the power structure with all branches of government beholden to them. The US has been bankrupt for a long time --we are just using Monopoly money now -- and it all ends up back in the box when the game is over.

I don't follow your understanding of money at all. If I have a dollar in my pocket you say it means I owe it to someone? I don't get it. My understanding is if I have a dollar it means I received it for exchanging my services generally in the form of labor. We really are in a barter system. The baker, the doctor, the preacher etcetera are given dollars based on what their services are worth in a free market place. The difference in their dollar receipts represents the different values placed on their services. Some of them may save some dollars and rent them to others for a time and receive what we call interest (or rent) and later get their dollars (principal) back. Instead of the baker, the doctor, and the preacher keeping deatailed records about their dealings with each other and so that the baker doesn't have to send over a bunch more bread to the doctor who does not need anymore bread, the doctor allows the baker to just sell bread to others and send him the dollars that he receives from others. Without the dollars the bakers customers would have to go over and do something for the Doctor on behalf of the baker in order to pay back the baker. You can see how confusing life would get very quickly without the paper dollar. So a dollar has no value in gold, or silver or anything else, its' value is in orchestrating these complex relationships between jobs, occupations, skills of labor etcetera. The most valuable thing is not property, gold or silver capital but human capital. Paper is a lot easier to lug around than tons of gold and silver. Real estate is a great way of keeping property and value because it is limited (no one is making any more of it) but its' lack of liquidity does not make transfering the value from one to another very easy. What is wrong with this understanding of money?

"What is wrong with this understanding of money?" Simple -- what you are talking about is REAL money, what we are using is interest-bearing IOU's. You obviously understand the need for currency in order to facilitate trade, so we don't have to rehash that. Consider this, what if there was an individual in your scenario who could manufacture money out of nothing, then use that money to buy lots of real estate, businesses, anything and everything? Sooner or later he would acquire more property and power than anyone else -- through a trick. Also the money supply would 'expand' faster than the productivity required to make the things that money buys thus flooding the market with paper currency -- this would cause the value of the currency to drop -- this is called inflation. The guy that can manufacture money itself would ultimately command all industry and commerce. Next consider that this individual could 'loan' this money to others and charge interest? Now what if ALL the money in circulation was manufactured out of nothing and loaned into circulation -- if the people borrow a lot, there will be plenty of tokens for which to trade -- but if they pay back their loans, the money disappears back where it came from thus contracting the money supply and leaving less tokens with which to trade -- even if there is bountiful amounts of goods and services, without enough tokens to go around, trade is stifled. But the real clincher is that interest is being paid on the money people have borrowed and they pay that out of the principal -- thus it is necessary to borrow more in order to pay off the debt. I know this is hard to believe -- and that is what makes the system so insidious -- but every Federal Reserve Note (whether it be in the form of a check, bank note, or simple electronic transaction like a credit card purchase) has been borrowed -- that is how it is put into circulation in the first place -- that is how 'money' is made today. This is called fiat currency or legal tender or paper currency. It has been the cause of every boom and bust since 1913 (and the reason the dollar's value has been sliding steadily downward). When someone 'borrows' money from a bank, the money is then 'created' -- it is simply an IOU that can be legally traded INSTEAD of money. The borrower pays his baker and doctor with it, but still has to pay interest on it until he pays back the IOU. Once the IOU is paid, it is torn up and taken out of circulation. But every note still in circulation is an IOU someone somewhere is paying interest on. If everyone paid off every debt they had, there would be no 'money' at all -- and we would still owe more!! This is a crime against humanity. Prior to 1913, the currency in the US was gold and silver for which there were actual certificates printed for every dollar in storage at some bank somewhere so that we could trade these certificates instead of carrying around a lot of heavy metal, but whenever one wanted to, they could go to the bank and claim their gold or silver with the certificate representing it. The fact is that the Federal Reserve took all the gold and silver certificates in circulation in exchange for the paper money that it still creates out of nothing -- the gold can stay where it is, but they hold the certificates for it -- it is theirs. We the people on the other hand have only interest-bearing fiat paper that becomes worth less and less as more and more of it is borrowed into circulation --savings are essentially confiscated over time. And as a result, the purchasing power of the people is stolen by those that manufacture the money out of nothing. Every king and country in Europe fell to this deception and the US has followed. Andrew Jackson was the last president to put a stop to this banker's fraud -- and all we have to do is revoke the Fed's charter and end this enslavement.

In 1816 Congress established the third Federal Bank (Thomas Jefferson closed the second central bank in 1811). But, President Jackson, overriding Congress, closed it in 1836 commenting:

"The bold effort the present bank had made to control the government ... are but premonitions of the fate that await the American people should they be deluded into a perpetuation of this institution or the establishment of another like it."
-- President Andrew Jackson

"You tell me that if I take the deposits from the bank and annul its charter, I shall ruin ten thousand families. That may be true, gentlemen, but that is your sin! Should I let you go on, you will ruin fifty thousand families, and that would be my sin! You are a den of vipers and thieves.''
-- President Andrew Jackson, 1836

Banking worldwide (so it has nothing to do with the USA or government theives or anything like that) creates "money" in the following manner. It takes deposits and tells you that you can have your money anytime you wish on checking deposits and maybe can make you wait 30 days on saving deposits. In a sense they are lying to you because the very same day later in the afternoon they may loan out as much as 90% of your money. If you went in after that and asked for it they could only give you ten bucks. But they are playing a statistical game and very exact science it is. The government does not print money willy nilly and put it into circulation. They only print money to replace worn out bills. The money supply today is approx. 500 billion. However assuming the population spends that 500 B. today and the recievers of the money spend it tommorrow and the next day etc. until the end of the year you will find that that 500 B of greenbacks has turned over 365 times. The speed at which people spend greenbacks is called the accelerator effect. 365 x 500,000,000 is a lot of "money" or at least value. You might enjoy learning Archer that in Korea in the 1960's we were paid monopoly money. A five had a picture looked like Marilyn Monroe in a sable cape etcetera. My understanding is the Army/government did not want greenbacks being spent downtown and winding up in North Korea, they also did not want us to spend our Army monopoly money either downtown but just on the base. On occasion they totally changed the issue and declare the old issue worthless. One had to make sure he exchanged his old money timely or take a loss. Story was told that cases of the stuff was once stolen off of the harbor I guess in Inchon so the Army just revoked that issue and started over again. That story sounds like folklore to me. I think you are off base on your understanding of the money system. I use to know this stuff for I was a bank internal auditor for 3 years, but when you put $100 in your bank, the bank lends out say 80 and is reguired by law to put 10 into the regional Federal Reserve Bank; this is what the term Reserve Requirement means. With all of the banks in the New York District putting 10% into the Fed you can see how that will really add up. Of course this reserve requirement reduces how much the bank can lend out. If the Fed relaxs the reserve requirement more green is available to the market if it increases the reserve then less green is available. This is just part of the operation. All industrialized nations in the world operate this way. I think your evil empire approach is wrong. From frbatlanta.org I got the following information about cash in circulation: 1910 through 2000 showing just the billions: 1910 3 1920 5 1930 4 1940 7 1950 27 1960 32 1970 54 1980 127 1990 266 2000 571 I understand how many have different understanding of these things, that is why they call economics the evil science. I read that when Lincoln was in the White House, he told Sec of The Treasury Salmon B. Chase that he thought he would have to sign every Treasury Note.

"I think you are off base on your understanding of the money system. I use to know this stuff for I was a bank internal auditor for 3 years, but when you put $100 in your bank, the bank lends out say 80 and is required by law to put 10 into the regional Federal Reserve Bank." Ha! not even close. When you deposit $100 into the bank, it becomes the so-called 'reserve' and the bank lends out $1000 at current interest rates (using 10% as the reserve requirement -- that requirement is no more, BTW). So if the rate is 5%, the bank actually is able to charge 50% interest on your $100 deposit. It sounds like you got duped like most folks in collusion with the system. You may have ended up on top after 60 years, but many billions have not. Apologizing for the fascist Rockefeller's and Rothschild's and essentially saying, 'oh, why can't you just let it go, it's not so bad' is the same thing the Loyalists said in 1776. It is a grave sin to lay upon the masses unpayable debt resulting in Communist enslavement (supposedly what we have been spending all these trillions of dollars to prevent). You may be OK with it, I am not. It is unlawful, unConstitutional, unconscionable, and the greatest tyranny in the world. I will leave off here as there are many sources on this and I have spoken enough on the subject for one quote. Suffice it to say, the Fed has stolen the resources of an entire nation and enslaved us for 35% of our labors each year for the privilege of this iniquitous system -- not to mention the millions of lives of those killed in war fueled by this system, and the billions of people in the 3rd world and Communist countries that have been enslaved by their state and the debt laiden upon them. That may be OK with some, but not with me, and as we sow, so shall we reap.

We have no unpayable debt in this country, the richest country the universe (as far as we know) has ever seen. The only thing we lack in this country is political will. And the system does not take 35% of your earnings from noble labor but only up to 35% from your TAXABLE INCOME after allowing you a generous portion for mortgage interest, charitable giving, and work related expenses, and a hefty exemption amount for you and each person you support. And the generosity of the government knows no bounds because they refuse to tax funds that you had to use for medical care etcetera. Thus a family of 4 making $50,000 would pay tax on only approximately $20,000 at around 15% or $3,000. This comes out to 6% of the noble laborers fruit. You are probably to young to remember when the progressive rates went up into the 90% range, so you cannot appreciate the low rates we have today. Archer if you and I cannot get at least the facts straight between us (two grown men) how can we talk and solve the problems of our community, state, and nation? (PS: Many folk pay more to local via real estate, state via sales tax than they do to federal tax from the noble laborers fruit.)

The only thing that a bank will loan you is a pen to sign a note. When you sign their note, you are then authorized to rob your neighbors with checks. There are only two possible economic systems; barter and slavery. God commanded a barter system with: Thou shalt not steal, The sole function of dishonest Abe's legal tender acts was/is to take labor and property without payment. There are hoards of "money experts" (fictional reserve fanatics) who cannot or will not define pay, borrow, loan, spend, money dollar, currency or inflation and thus contradict themselves. Merrill Jenkins was the first Monetary Realist (1919-1979) all who knew him said that he was a genius. He defined his terms making money, credit and inflation synonyms. His First book was: "Money, The Greatest Hoax On Earth."

It means that you should not serve anyone but your own values and principles. That if you vote out of self interest it doesn't matter who you vote for you are a slave of your own interest and vices and not a free man driven by love of good and of values and of principles. Your vote should be for love of country and nothing else, otherwise you are a slave.

It is not a matter of what I think but what I know. It is not possible to print money anymore than you can print love, zeal or hatred. Our misleaders print TOKENS that almost all of us call 'money." The Fed never lied when they said their system of plunder "works (us) only with credit." God promised long life if we refrained from cheating others with false weights and measures, De.25:13-15 They have admitted that no one pays any taxes since taxes cannot be paid with credit and they admitted that government spends nothing and pays for nothing. We will have continuous wars as long as soldiers and suppliers pretend we are all paid with paper. The dollar was permanently fixed as a measure of silver, 371 1/4 grains, in the Coinage Act of 1792, Nobel Laureate, Paul Samuelson wrote that the Federal Reserve is an "omnipotent counterfeiter" in his Economics, 4th Edition. No one wants us to pay any taxes but we had better satisfy the Imaginary Revenue Scum or risk going to jail and have our property seized. Karl Max's Communist Manifesto has superseded the Bill of Rights with the first 3 planks being real estate, income and inheritance taxes, ALL illusions being the first 3 and the rest found at: www.morpix.biz/x4 Read them and weep! Pray that you get jury duty so that you might dismiss anyone accused of tax offenses, keeping in mind that taxes produce zero revenue in this system that works us only with weightless credit that God forbids.

Bruce is not alone in his 'understanding' of banking and economics -- it is a common mistake since the mechanics of money creation is NEVER covered in 12 years of elementary and secondary education (and hardly covered in university either). The fact is that the USA has been bankrupt since 1934, and we are in receivership to the Federal Reserve. The Fed provides us with currency backed by T-Bills (promissory notes) in order to service the debt to the Federal Reserve.

Yes, the debt is UNPAYABLE -- because while the money was created to 'loan' the principal, the interest being charged is NOT created, so it has to come from another 'loan' somewhere else. If we all turned in every dollar to the banks, we would still find oursleves in debt without any money in circulation. The debt IS unpayable, and that is the mechanics behind the scam that has STOLEN the wealth and liberty of the American people.

The U.S. is not the wealthiest and most productive country in the world any more -- and it is all due to an accounting trick that puts everyone in debt perpetually. By treating debt as wealth, the wealthiest country in the world has become the most indebted country in the world.

This quote implies that we are all slaves to something - the paper and electronic systems of international money trading, corporate banking and stock exchange are understood by few despite their far reaching effects on many. What's the alternative? How does bit coin and its derivatives work again?

Mick, kind of funny, I like it.

Nevertheless, in the developing process of freedom we must study the different states of confinement before we are granted a more advanced stage of freedom and its advanced components. We are not in a single climatic defining dimension of freedom, no not at all, but we are actually becoming ever more and more free beings if so  inclined to seek freedom in its authenticity and its vast range.