Why do you say bonds were sold to the Federal Reserve. I own government bonds in the six figures. If you cannot get your head around the fact that people own government bonds I don't get it. You know if you will accept the smallest lie and make a lie out of the simplest truth you cannot be trusted with anything. If you accept lies then you probably lie yourself. It is like authority: if you can accept no one else's why should anyone accept yours. The world: American people, Social Security, the Chineese, Japaneese and every one else owns US Government Bonds. The National Debt is simply a summation of all of these bonds and twice a day a government employee presses a button on a computer and the total is given. It is simply the summation of all of the registered serial numbered bonds. You have a lot of misconceptions: 1) The Federal Reserve is not a private corporation, it is quasi government institution. It is THE BANK for commercial banks, the ones you and I deal with. Commercial banks own it but any income the Fed earns gets paid to the US Treasury. Just like you and I may have a required minimum deposit at our bank, commercial banks have deposit requirements at the Federal Reserve. This requiremetn provides a cushion should any member commercial bank need funds in a crunch. This system was started after runs on banks caused a crisis in the early 1900's. The issue Archer is not the Federal Reserve or compelled compliance. The issue is how in the hell did you and Mike get so smart while all of the rest of the world got so stupid. Waking up is not good enough you and Mike need to go to college, maybe a community college in your neighborhood if they will have you. The debt can easily be paid. We are a very rich country. After the next election taxes will be increased on the wealthy. We need to have a surplus of 400 billion for 20 years and the debt will be paid off. Go on IRS web sites or google "how much tax cheating each year" or something like that and you will find that it is estimated to be $200 billion. So an increase in enforcement and a slight increase in rates will easily bring in $400 billion. Right now the US Government has a budget of 2.7 trillion. Bringing in an additional $400 billion is only about a 15% increase. It could easily be done but we need to educate the public and people like you. Ross Perot did it during the 1992 campaign and when Clinton got in he raised the taxes although most of the chikens*** politicians would not vote for it and Gore cast the deciding vote. The problem is honest people can not get elected by telling folks that I am going to raise taxes. Thus we get the demogogues like Bush who says I am going to cut your taxes, then he sells bonds and pays interest. There is no free lunch for you or I or the government. Once this debt is paid off then we will have freedom, freedom from the interest and a substantial reduction of tax rates.

Archer to even think of bearing arms against government that is "of, by and for the people" is treasonous against that government and those people.

Archer there is no check or balance against Executive Aggrandizement except the ballot box, impeachment and congressional, and court meddling to stop him. We are a nation of law. No armed group has any right to confront any duly elected government of the people. If a duly credentialed police officer orders you to stop you had bette stop. If he harms you you have a right to redress in court. Again the American people to do not have a right to bear arms against their government. John Brown tried and heaven knows that maybe he was right under heaven but he was not right under the law.

Robert I believe it is the National Guard. The Governor of each state is the commander in chief of his states National Guard. But as we know the Governor of a subordinate state (as opposed to "soverign") can be replaced as the Commander In Chief by the action of the Federales who can "nationalize" the national guard. Words kind of confuse the issue but I think this is substantialy correct. In no event is the National Guard militia or any component of armed society authorized to attach any element of government. Under the law the way to attack government is at the ballot box. I think Madison was a little confusing here I only give him a 1.

Archer the only weapon you have at your disposal is the vote, unless you wish to rely on some natural law of which I may not be aware. The current law of the land prohibits taking up arms against the government(s), local, state, or federal. The states are not soverign (do not have absolute power) they cannot prevent any US Citizen or legal US resident from entering or leaving them. Persons are not soverign (have absolute power) they cannot prevent the government(s) from taking from them what under law belongs to the government. The governments are soverign over that portion of a persons income that under law belongs to the governments. I think you are right Eric about our wealth and it is high time the government took possession of enough of it to balance the budget, pay for our military, pay off the national debt and stop borrowing the wealth of others and paying interest on it. We are a wealthy nation but we need a little bit more politcal will and fiscal discipline.